Do you use it ?

Discussion in 'Marketplace Feedback' started by French Cadman, Nov 28, 2014.

  1. French Cadman

    French Cadman Administrator Staff Member

    Has anyone ever used this product ?
    your opinion ?


    Thanks !
  2. cadfan

    cadfan Moderator Staff Member

    Not this one i use the pure zi powder from doceram very fine reactive zi powder without binder material it absorbs the color from the heating elements and the muffle chamber 500g 130 euro maybe a half teaspoon for every run .
  3. French Cadman

    French Cadman Administrator Staff Member

    Thanks Cadfan but do you have some pic or info on this product ?

    I look on the Doceram websit but I don't find .... :(

    may be a private product ? Only for german guys ? ;)
  4. cadfan

    cadfan Moderator Staff Member

    Yes your right its white powder !!!!! its not on the website if you want to try ill send you 50 g or so as Christmas present on your own risk as i say white powder french police ????

    Attached Files:

  5. Zero Zero

    Zero Zero Guest

    I use the powder residue from the mill time by works...and my sinter beads are called 250 micron Korox ( from Bego)...;)... Almost 3 years, no contamination and the heating elements look like new...
  6. French Cadman

    French Cadman Administrator Staff Member

    What is the your sinter beads are called 250 micron Korox (?) can you explain me ?

    Cadfan, I have a new question about your white powder from Nacera Doceram ,
    Where do you put it in the sinter oven ? Do you vave a special container to put it in ?

    So this white powder is a Zr powder ?

    Thanks guys !
  7. Zero Zero

    Zero Zero Guest

    I'm using 250 micron Korox (sand blasting material) as sintering beads...super cheap and lasts for a long time. All you have to do is just to break it up before each cycle to prevent caking. The idea came to me looking at the original Sinter Sand from KaVo... ;)

    As for decontaminatig the (unshaded) Zr powder residue works well ( given it has quite a substantial surface area )...I usually layer about 4-5mm on the top of the sand not touching the the sintering tray walls. Do not worry about the binders...they're organic and burn out without any contaminants at a relatively low temp (400-500 C)...
  8. Toast

    Toast Active Member

    I've been using it for a few months now. I have the Mihm-Vogt HT (the big one) and the elements were looking flaky within a couple of months after we bought it. I tried the repair program that Sch├╝tz recommends on their website but they say it can only be done 10-15 times over the life of the elements. I figured it wouldn't hurt to try the vision product, their porcelain furnace purge has always worked well. The elements do look better after using it and any dis colorization on the insulation is gone too. I use it once a week and my elements look pretty good after a year of use. I've found I get better results sintering zirconia without a lid on the crucible and don't have to worry about the elements flaking off on the Zr. I figure for the price it's pretty good piece of mind at the very least.

    MSTiSPINNER New Member

    We have a relatively new Nabotherm sintering furnace. What are your referencing when you are taking about utilizing the unshaded zirconia powder.

    Support from Nabotherm in THE US has been less than ideal.
  10. Zero Zero

    Zero Zero Guest

    Well, support is very scarce in my neck of the woods...pretty much for everything. That results in a mentality by trying to address any issue by ourselves before calling out for help :D ... So, here's my take on the sintering process (might not be the case, take it with a grain of salt ;))

    The idea came to me when sintered a bunch of crowns at once...and a few of them happened to touch each-other because of crowding...there were a few undipped (bleach shade) crowns among them, which drew the shade out of the dipped crowns where it touched...kinda like a sponge... Another thing, when the zirconia sintering beads start to break down from the repeated heat cycles...they tend to cause white spots on them crowns where they touch...probably becoming porous from the microcracks or could be something else...dunno

    The main pigment used to stain zirconia is iron oxide (according to the MSDS)...could be some other metal oxides as well. It's insoluble in water but disolves in acids...hence the acidic stains. The contamination issue from the acidic stains could be that the dissolved iron oxide leaks out easier from the dipped crowns ...if they not totally dry... I believe that's why certain manufacturers recommend substantial drying times. Water based stains are developed into oxides after sipping into the zirconia either by heat or a chemical developer (like ammonium salts) being a precipitate I believe thats why is less prone to leak out...

    All those leaked out stains and whatnot readily contaminate zirconia can be used to sponge up those contaminants ;) Finer particles have bigger surface area...therefore more effective. The binder free Zr powder what is out there its just marketing BS...IMO... binders are organic and burn out without any residue at a low temperature, if wouldn't be that case it would case all sorts of issues during sintering. Preshaded disks got stains already mixed in might not be the best candidate to scrub up contaminants... Unshaded Zr powder is readily available in your dust extractor (given that you're not cutting preshaded zirconia) or you could break up some empty disks in really small pieces...:)
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2015
  11. Affinity

    Affinity Active Member Staff Member

    interesting thoughts zero, I just had a couple units that looked chalky white on the occlusal. one was a D4 so lots of gray stain, it seems like it either didnt absorb it or didnt sinter properly. trying to figure out what happened. Another was a b1 and it had areas on the buccal that were chalky..
  12. Zero Zero

    Zero Zero Guest

    If you had the white spots on parts touching the sintering beads...then it most like the beads are the culprit... I'd change it pronto...
  13. cadfan

    cadfan Moderator Staff Member

    crap webcam picture but ill think the difference is to see left after one cycle right new material. Bild15.jpg

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