SUM3D Question - What is this curve when importing a screw retained crown?

Discussion in 'CAM software' started by Erykd1, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. Erykd1

    Erykd1 Member

    This happens to me more often than not - when I import a screw retained crown into SUM from Exocad, it often gets placed in the puck sideways. No big deal, I use manual positioning to straighten it out and try to keep the hole as vertical as possible. However, the angle of this curve seems to be treated as a drilling axis, even though I manually define a drilling axis through the hole in the crown. I mark the margins and do a milling simulation. The mill tries to mill the interface of the Ti base sideways. I've tried deleting this curve, but it just stays there. It is only viewable when I'm in the maximum interface level or while adjusting with manual positioning.
    Any ideas? Using Exocad 2016, Sum3d 2016 from CAP, and Roland DWX 51D
    [​IMG]
     
  2. leshi

    leshi Well-Known Member

    This looks like an insertion axis curve for the cavity. The object looks like it was modeled using a titanium base library, so you could not change it in the exocade.
    Possible reasons
    - Wrong object type when importing
    What type of object do you choose when importing stl?
    - Broken constructioninfo.
    Do you use it? Try to remove it and import stl without it.
    - Bad version of SUM3d.
    To check this, put stl + constructioninfo here. I or someone else will repeat your actions on another version of the program and tell you about the result.
     
    Rigant likes this.
  3. Erykd1

    Erykd1 Member

    Thanks for the reply. Yes, it's designed on a Mist/imilling Ti base, designed using one of their scan bodies. I'll post the stl and construction info when I get to the lab tomorrow.
     
  4. Erykd1

    Erykd1 Member

  5. leshi

    leshi Well-Known Member

    Why do you have a constructioninfo file at the end of the ".xml"?
    7504.constructionInfo.xml
    Some kind of error in the exocade. The object is not properly located. In the preview, the occlusal side should be on top. In your case, it is rotated 90 degrees.

    screen.jpg

    There are 2 possible reasons.
    - You do not correctly save objects.
    - One of the parameters in the setting of exocade that is responsible for the correct position of objects after saving does not work. I do not remember what it is called, maybe you will be helped by support exocade or someone on the forum.
     
    cadfan likes this.
  6. cadfan

    cadfan Moderator Staff Member

    Leshi is 100 % wright i think the orientation with your scanmarkers vs implant lib. is wrong for some reason ??!! upload them too
     
  7. Erykd1

    Erykd1 Member

  8. DMC

    DMC Scott Hudson

    Implant library has issues and creates bad curve with wrong name.
    Something like that.

    That bad curve is included with constructioninfo
     
  9. DMC

    DMC Scott Hudson

    Why not just scan the Ti base as a prep, Implant-manual position.

    Forget stupid scan-marker for Glue-to-Ti base
     
  10. cadfan

    cadfan Moderator Staff Member


    your scan data orientation is wrong 90 degrees thats why the curves in sum are wrong. just opened as they are

    2019-04-26_00004-003_DentalCadScreenshot3.png
     
  11. Elab

    Elab Active Member

    This crown will mill fine with CAP's strategies for Hybrid Abutment (because its a short crown), Just move file to a folder (without the construction info file) and bring it into Sum as a Hybrid Abutment as usual, you shouldn't have any problems.

    Do like Scott says and just scan the Ti base and choose Screw Retained (manual positioning) its just easier.

    One question though, do you have issues milling these when you have a long screw channel?
    CAP's strategies always mucked it up for me, same equip as you, Exocad, Sum3D and DWX 51D from CAP.
    Wasted hours with them trying to eliminate the problem. The Sum Jedi Master Obi Wan Codfish Ka Joebi (Brad) fixed the
    problem in less than 20 minutes, took me 15 of those 20 to explain what was going on.
     
    2thm8kr likes this.
  12. leshi

    leshi Well-Known Member

    He still has a issue with the direction of the object. Look at the picture. This happens regardless of constructioninfo.

    screen2.jpg
     
  13. Erykd1

    Erykd1 Member

    You're right Leshi, I still have to do a manual positioning of the implant crowns every time. However, once that is done, I haven't had any problems with the milling. If I use the construction info, the mystery insertion axis curve sometimes causes the mill to try to mill the inside at an extreme angle, so at least that problem is fixed by using the STL only.
     
  14. Erykd1

    Erykd1 Member

    Elab-
    The only times I've had problems with milling deep access hole crowns is when using 3rd party milling burs. I buy diamond coated 2mm and 1mm from TD Dental (which I highly recommend) and although they said they are the same as Roland brand burs, I measured and the cutting length is about .5mm shorter than what was shown in the tool room. (Sorry I don't know the terminology) This caused the wide chamfered part of the shank to start hitting the inside of the access hole while milling it out. After I adjusted that measurement, no issues.
     
  15. Elab

    Elab Active Member

     
  16. Elab

    Elab Active Member

    Thumbs Up on TD's diamond coated burs, been using them a while now.
    I'm not talking about deep access crowns, I'm talking only about loooong deep screw channels in tall hybrid crowns, abutments and All on 4's, sorry for the missunderstanding
     
  17. leshi

    leshi Well-Known Member

    This is not mystery curve, this is not correct working curve with your direction of object. And it was not a fix for your issue, but a detour. You still need to fix CAD part. As cadfan said, the scan data is rotated 90 degrees.
     
    cadfan likes this.
  18. Erykd1

    Erykd1 Member

    Thanks Leshi
    I totally agree this is just a workaround for now.
    So what is the consensus?
    Is it a problem with the Mist/iMilling implant library or my Exocad?
     
  19. leshi

    leshi Well-Known Member

    We had a similar situation in the laboratory at one of the exocad. With the lower jaw objects had the correct position, but with the upper jaw, they were turned upside down. We wrote an support exocad and they corrected us only one value in one of the configuration files (xml). Unfortunately, I do not remember where this setting.
    If you do not want to write to them, then you can try to reinstall your program with default settings. Just do not delete the old program for backup.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
    cadfan likes this.
  20. Erykd1

    Erykd1 Member

    UPDATE
    If anyone else is having this issue, Exocad support was able to resolve the issue.
    Added line <RotateAbutmentsToZAxis>true</RotateAbutmentsToZAxis> in config settings.
    Big thanks to Yuri at exocad support :)
     
    Rigant, leshi, cadfan and 1 other person like this.

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